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PostPost subject: Blue's and two's on H/A vehicles Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:14 am
THE ROAD CLOSER

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  Having just been browsing through the polls I found that 62% of those who have responded want blues and two's on H/A vehicles. My question is WHY?
Have we suddenly become an emergency service? as last time I looked we weren't.


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PostPost subject: Blues and two's - not a universal panacea Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:20 am
EFCO

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  Food for thought folks .....

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/34136/Anger-over-188-people-killed-by-999-call-vehicles

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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:24 am
Chocolate boy

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  The thing is, were not an emergency service but we do respond to emergencies. In the view of many TO's at my outstation, we need to get to incidents as quickly as possible. I have been to many incidents where i have got there before police have. In some instances for reasons i wont go into someone of authority needed to be there seconds after it happened, an example you could think about is youtube.

Gaining access is slowly getting easier as people begin to realise when orange lights are behind them that we need to get through so they move, blues on the front would just make it easier still. Second, some TO's against proc's use reds only in RRB's because in their experience, amber and red is ignored. Having blues for RRB's only would, many say, improve things but TBH the rules on reds usage is floated already by so many across the country that we couldnt be trusted with blues for "RRB's only" as some would use them for anything and then there would be a thread on "REAR BLUES" that would be 28 pages long.

i strongly feel that sirens should be fitted asap for when we travel the HS, amber or blue lights on the front makes no difference when travelling the HS if the MOP who opens his door isnt looking in his mirror. so far we have been lucky but its only a matter of time before a mops arm is taken off by one of us. Yes yes i know 20 mph max but even at 20, if they open the door at that exact second, its off.

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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:12 pm
THE ROAD CLOSER

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  " WE ARE NOT AN EMERGENCY SERVICE BUT WE DO RESPOND TO EMERGENCIES",Is that not a contradiction in terms?.How can we respond to emergencies and not be an emergency service. I thought we went to scenes to implement traffic managment not to deal with emergencies.Surely that is the domain of the BIB,Fire service and Ambo etc.


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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:46 pm
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  hi all interesting topic blue lights and sirens
having been a fireman for 25yrs with plenty of incidents attended bot driver and oic i would say that providing you have the correct training and are qualified to drive the vehicle then it would help you gain egress in traffic solid situations however as is stated below you are not an emergency service YET so i would say dont run before you can walk

also i wish you had been around when i was called to incidenst on motorways as the police did not do much to protect my saftey and for all you out there your saftey is FIRST PRIORITY OR ELSE YOU END UP A PART OF THE INCIDENT and i am sure it will be debated long hrs on here

am not part of your organisation but have applied for position as RCC at rob lane so you never know it may be me spaeking to you one day

you all take care and remember NEVER TAKE YOUR EYES OF THE TRAFFIC COMING AT YOU

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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:22 pm
Chocolate boy

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THE ROAD CLOSER wrote:
" WE ARE NOT AN EMERGENCY SERVICE BUT WE DO RESPOND TO EMERGENCIES",Is that not a contradiction in terms?.How can we respond to emergencies and not be an emergency service. I thought we went to scenes to implement traffic managment not to deal with emergencies.Surely that is the domain of the BIB,Fire service and Ambo etc.


No it isnt a contradiction.

Think about it, Debris, be it a pallet, bicycle or lorry tyre in the carraigeway is an emergency and classed as an immediate respnce by Police. But who gets sent to collect this debris???? We do. Its part of our remit and always has been. Therefore we are responding to an emergency. We cant do 90 or go through red lights but we get there as quick as we can to prevent death or serious injury from a car swerving to avoid it or a motorbike hitting it and being decappitated on the barrier.

Hope thats clearer for you!!!

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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:25 pm
Nighthawk

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THE ROAD CLOSER wrote:
" WE ARE NOT AN EMERGENCY SERVICE BUT WE DO RESPOND TO EMERGENCIES",Is that not a contradiction in terms?.How can we respond to emergencies and not be an emergency service. I thought we went to scenes to implement traffic managment not to deal with emergencies.Surely that is the domain of the BIB,Fire service and Ambo etc.


Something to think about... A pair of ladders have been reported in lane 3 of a 4 lane stretch of carriageway. It doesn't require traffic management ie: coning off, but it does require a rapid response as debris can kill. I for one would be making way as quickly, as safely, as legally as poss. I agree B&T's would help.

Another... RTC lane 2 & 3.. Persons reported.. Incident on a particular bad stretch of the network where the scene is sheilded by a bend in the road. Ok, I know ETM will be deployed.. Whilst on route, an update comes from the RCC that Police are tied up on another incident.. It's down to you to make the scene safe for the other emergency services that are on route. This is a real incident, one that I had to deal with. So yes, I did get there as quickly as pos. and again, B&T's would have helped my progress.

So, with that in mind, do you still think that we don't respond to emergencies?

We do respond. We do provide emergency traffic management. We do assist ISU's and other contractors in Traffic Management.

I agree that we should never loose sight of what our primary role is, but the hard cold reality is that the very nature of the environment that we work and the incidents that we deal with means that we should be designated as an emergency service.


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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:13 pm
jezza

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  I don't know of anyone in my region who just uses Reds only to gain compliance quicker in an RRB, but I can just see the grief heading their way when someone sees them and anchors on causing a secondary RTC further away from the TOV Rolling Eyes

Look at the holes being poked in the NIP mentioned elsewhere on the site. Imagine what would be said if a HATO was caught doing a block in that manner? Can you imagine the HA sticking up for the crew?

I can't.

The only thing certain is that if the wheels came off, then the two Officers concerned would find themselves potentially very lonely in a courtroom.

As for Sirens, I don't think we need one fitting to each TOV as without blues, it's cause confusion with peole hearing it and diving out of the way because they thought Fire/Plod/Ambo was coming through, and end up potentially moving into our path because 'we've only got ambers', but a nice loud airhorn - you know, a proper truck sized jobbie - would be useful Wink

Jezza


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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:28 pm
TheWanderer

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  My observations are that to aid progress we should have electronic air horn and alternating headlamps (daytime use only) Our local rota recovery use these to very good effect in a tow truck (illegally of course).


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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:01 pm
jezza

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  I reckon we could do without the headlight wigwags if the grille LED's were positioned in a move visible position. Maybe more at 'rear view mirror' level instead of being squirrelled away behind the grilles of the Land Cruiser... Question

But an air horn would be really useful in H/S running! Twisted Evil

Cost Cutting Jezza


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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:08 pm
Chocolate boy

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  I also think lights at eye level would be a boon. maybe like these new ambo's on top the dash.

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PostPost subject: Re: Blue's and two's on H/A vehicles Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:21 pm
cone dropper

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THE ROAD CLOSER wrote:
Having just been browsing through the polls I found that 62% of those who have responded want blues and two's on H/A vehicles. My question is WHY?
Have we suddenly become an emergency service? as last time I looked we weren't.


Some people can't behave with ambers and reds, god knows what would happen if you gave them Blues and twos Rolling Eyes


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PostPost subject: Re: Blue's and two's on H/A vehicles Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:43 pm
Race Track

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cone dropper wrote:
Some people can't behave with ambers and reds, god knows what would happen if you gave them Blues and twos Rolling Eyes


Sometimes it is not about what you give people, it is about how they are trained and to what standard!


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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:50 pm
mops1

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  I advocate some sort of audible warning a headlight flash as both of this are something different that I believe would assist in making progress.
Having fed various ideas through to TLC on enhancements for our excuse for training I am yet to have any kind of acknowledgemeant let alone a reply.

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PostPost subject: Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:18 pm
Bob Parr

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  I c ertainly think that an audible warning device would be very beneficial esp in h/s running

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